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Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
0
   |
Posted - 2012.05.07 06:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Zelda Wei wrote:
Without BPO then T2 would be much more expensive.
Not realy, plus CCP has plans on lowering invention cost |
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 10:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:Morgan Dinn wrote:Zelda Wei wrote:
Without BPO then T2 would be much more expensive.
Not realy, plus CCP has plans on lowering invention cost do they? i thought it was just pushing datacores into the hands of FW'ers
that means datacore prices will drop quite abit which means invention cost will drop which means invention will be cheaper. |
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 06:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:beor oranes wrote:Ten Bulls wrote:Increase manufacturing time of T2 BPO's that have more than 50% of production.
Problem solved. That is possibly the best suggestion I have heard. It's not needed but its actually pretty good. T2 BPO's only dominate the market when the volume sold of the item is low, the rest are dominated by invention. And if you look at ships that have no T2 BPO quite a few of them are unprofitable and that cant be blamed on T2 BPO's. Hopefully if the changes to moon-goo that has been suggested by Soundwave could really change up the whole T2 market. But what does that do to benefit invention? All that would do is **** all over the most useless of the T2 BPOs. Even if you removed T2 BPOs in their entirety, I still wouldn't want to invent, say, 50mm reinforced steel plate IIs, so how would this "pretty good" (by which I mean "arbitrary and naively implemented") suggestion actually benefit the inventor? This will be the third time I have presented this challenge. So far, nobody has even attempted to furnish an answer: Please name one item that I am currently locked out of as an inventor that would become an attractive option in the absence of T2 BPOs.
The second time I answer you that any tech 2 item would come attractive. Prices would change to invention prices which would mean that inventing any item would be profitable cause it would be the only way to do the items.
And atm you are locked out on all tech 2 items that have tech 2 bpos in the game. No point inventing if you are trying to make profit. The bpo owners can undercut you anytime and you will be forced to sell on loss if you want to sell the items. |
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 13:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well now
Here goes.
Lets say we will build and sell and imaginery tech 2 shuttle that has a material need of 2000 tritanium with perfect ME level. and also lets imagine that trit costs 1 isks.
The lottery was kind for us and we got an BPO for our selfs and we used few million isks to research it to me10 and cause wanted a copy we started invention and got a me-4 BPC after 4 tries so I consumed 4 mech datacores and 4 ship datacores.
Oh yeah I also need some skills.
Took me 15 days to train the production effiency to 5 and ship engineering to 3 so I can make the shuttle. Also I had to train mechanical engineering to 5, ship engineering to 5 and encryptions to 5 which too me another 45 days.
On to the building. I have friend in caldary navy so the station service will be free.
Using the BPO
I had to get 2018 units of tritanium and wait few hours and the ship was done.
This totals to: 2018 units of trit
Using invention
I had to start invention, get 3000 units of tritanium and few other equipment and a lab 4 mechanical engineering datacores and 4 ship engineerin datacores.
This totals to: 3000 units of trit, 4 mech datacores and 4 ship datacores
Now I was wondering... I could sell the ship with 2600 isks. That a around 28% of profit.
Then I realized that I need to sell the other thing also and I can't go lower than 3000 isks cause it cost way more than 3000 to make the thing.
So I this clear enough for you what I'm trying to say and what this is all about.
Tough everything effects everything and demand verus supply effects the prices BUT the BPO owner can ALWAYS undercut the inventors. And what ever you say will no change that. These are the game mechanics. This is how it works atm. |
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 13:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well I presented my point of view with something on it so you do better then Haulie. Convince me that me and other players are wrong and make your case.  |
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 14:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:how suprising, brewlar wakes up right after somebody made post that is bad enough that it could come from brewlar himself  your shuttle theory is funny but has nothing to do with the whole thing. it completly ignores Volume (wich makes it really bad already) and that somebody who is aiming for max profits would never sell for less than he could get. Ignore that it's a game, you just showed us that you have some serious logical barriers about business that you have to master before you can even understand why your shuttle theory is that bad.
Well I've been reading these posts so much already that I don't even know where I type my answers :P
Tough adding volume would just show tht the person owning the bpo could make more and get more profit while the inventor would just get amount of profit. Or do you wanna think this on the CCP scale?
Inventors vs BPO owners. I have a faint memory about a chart that showed that 35% (or something like that) is made from bpos. Tough I'm not totaly sure about it. And I'm too tired to go find it.
Plus the shuttle thing more about mechanics. Thats how it realy works. how you sell the stuff is a completely different thing I do know that. I would also personaly go for max profit. Calculate how much the invention would cost minimum and set the price on that at least and use bpos to make the stuff. 
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Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 14:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jajas Helper wrote:So this comes down to:
i'm butthurt someone is making profit of ships and damn you all, its not me so i'm mad!
(sounds about right?)
Must be a troll walking in that stinky black cave of yours. |
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 16:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jajas Helper wrote:-¿Pretty sure these bpo haters have never done inventions... heck.. even never produced anything"
Just a note that I do not hate BPOs  |
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 16:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ok so by your calculations inventers do the most of the work and according to ccp also so lets remove t2 bpos then?
Problem solved and no one needs to talk about this anymore ever again.
Tough i would loose quite abit in that :( |
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 17:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
I would be fine with either having more T2 originals in the game or making copies researchable or removing T2 BPOs. Any of those. Don't care which.
And no I'm not the guy who ever you are trying to make me be  |
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 17:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Morgan Dinn wrote:Ok so by your calculations inventers do the most of the work and according to ccp also so lets remove t2 bpos then?
Problem solved and no one needs to talk about this anymore ever again.
Tough i would loose quite abit in that :( Do you not understand that BPOs have asset value? How is it possible for any one person to own this much of the world's share of stupidity? Save some for someone else, yeesh. Could you be any more obvious about your agenda? You presented an argument. I blew your argument out of the water with incontrovertible math, and your response is, "Well, even though I'm completely wrong, let's remove them anyway just because." This makes it obvious that you don't care about the wellfare of the system or whether or not invention works. You've probably never even plugged in an invention job in your life. You're clearly just jealous that other people have things.
Hey this is about talking the matter. It realy doesn't matter what you say or how you present your case If someone from CCP wants to remove the bpos or do something about this. Do you REALY THINK they are going to ask you anything
There realy are no wrong or right answers to this. There are your views and someone elses views and the ideas that comes out from them. And how much we talk about numbers numbers it realy wont matter anything in the end if CCP say something and ofter that we will just loose isks and so.
And I did check some numbers yes. You are correct you can make pretty good isks out from invention on some stuff not all. Tough it will not change my opinion that something needs to be done to the originals. |
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 17:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Morgan Dinn wrote:Hey this is about talking the matter. It realy doesn't matter what you say or how you present your case If someone from CCP wants to remove the bpos or do something about this. Do you REALY THINK they are going to ask you anything http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/write.ign.com/64763/2012/04/what-is-this-i-dont-even-spiderman.jpgQuote:There realy are no wrong or right answers to this. There are your views and someone elses views and the ideas that comes out from them. And how much we talk about numbers numbers it realy wont matter anything in the end if CCP say something and ofter that we will just loose isks and so. The last bastion of the idiot who has finally realized how stupid he is: "Well, err, uhh... look, man, everyone has an opinion, right? There's no right or wrong answer, duuuude." Stupid and spineless. Some people have all the luck.
It's actualy funny how intellectual you think you are and then you go so low as calling someone stupid, spineles and putting out links of what ever and actualy think you won something and ignore some parts anyways. Basicly your just a greedy *****.
Do you know what happens to greedy ****? If you don't, think about it 
I'm done here as this realy aint moving in any direction.
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